Thornton, Thorin, and the flawed hero
Recently I've been re-watching one of my all time favorite BBC miniseries: North & South.
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| Richart Armitage as John Thornton and Daniela Denby-Ashe as Margaret Hale |
Basic storyline: A father, mother, and daughter from the rural south of England moves to the mill town of Milton in the north. Margaret, young, a little naive, and quite outspoken, meets local cotton mill owner John Thorton, a quiet, brooding character with a bit of a temper and a sarcastic tongue that could clip a hedge. Sparks soon fly between the two and not the good kind. These two can't be in the same room without one or the other starting a verbal sparring match. I love the story because both have character flaws and both end up the hero. It's a very true to life story. We've all known someone like Margaret Hale or John Thornton. Maybe we are them. So, if you love period dramas, or stuff from the BBC, check this one out.
Now, when I first started this movie, I hated John Thornton. The book and the movie are written so you'll detest him at first, and hate him I did. I thought he was arrogant, stuck-up, condescending, and untrusting. As the story progressed I realized something. He was all of the above. But as you learned his back story, through the eyes of Margaret Hale, he became a little easier to relate to. By the end of the second episode his hard exterior had melted a bit and the compassionate and gentle man started to peek through.
What's really going on is a total clash of cultures and a misunderstanding of two vastly different ways of life. Toss in the fact the we're dealing with a male and a female attempting to communicate and the stage is set for a total disaster, blow-up, fights, and mistaken statements. The story keeps moving and has a couple of surprising twists. All in all, a very good watch.
One of the biggest reasons I love this movie?
It introduced me to Richard Armitage (John Thornton).
Oh my.
As you can see from the pictures above and below the man is breathtakingly beautiful.
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| John Thornton |
Not handsome. Beautiful. There is a difference.
That dark hair and those blue eyes.
The deep voice and his natural accent.
How does England crank out men like this?
Anyway, when I found out that he would be playing Thorin Oakenshield in The Hobbit my first thought, I swear to you, was "Oh PLEASE do not cover up that face with a bunch of prosthetics and makeup!"
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| Thorin Oakenshield |
Now, I've read both North & South and The Hobbit multiple times, but it wasn't until I saw The Hobbit and the re-watched North & South that I realized how alike Thornton and Thorin are, and not just in name.
Similarities between Thornton and Thorin
Brooding
Don't talk much
Can be temperamental
Sarcastic
Untrusting
Leader of their family
Driven
A particular person in the story irritates/infuriates them
Fiercely loyal
Highly intelligent
Genuinely concerned for those they are in charge of
Torn between difficult decisions
No matter what they decide, someone will end up hurt
A painful past and upbringing
Have lost everything at some point
Looked down on because of who they are and where they are from
Misjudge and misunderstand those around them and in turn are misjudged and misunderstood.
Seem to want to be left alone but are afraid of the loneliness
Don't talk much
Can be temperamental
Sarcastic
Untrusting
Leader of their family
Driven
A particular person in the story irritates/infuriates them
Fiercely loyal
Highly intelligent
Genuinely concerned for those they are in charge of
Torn between difficult decisions
No matter what they decide, someone will end up hurt
A painful past and upbringing
Have lost everything at some point
Looked down on because of who they are and where they are from
Misjudge and misunderstand those around them and in turn are misjudged and misunderstood.
Seem to want to be left alone but are afraid of the loneliness
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| Thornton after his most recent fight with Margaret |
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| Thorin about to kill something on the way to The Lonely Mountain |
A friend of mine told me one that there are only about seven or eight narratives (basic stories) in the world. Every story, from the shortest fable to the longest novel, can fall in one of those categories. He explained that the flawed hero category is one of them and contains some of the stories we're most attracted to. Why? Because even if it's set in 1800's Milton, England or who-knows-when Middle Earth, we can relate to the hero. The hero gives us hope. Stories with the perfect hero who makes all the right decisions at all the right times and everyone loves them don't do well on bookstore shelves.
Why not?
It isn't real.
No, Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves, and Wizards aren't real, but the situations they found themselves in aren't that fundamentally different from what we deal with day to day.
John Thornton and Margaret Hale aren't real, but the life changes, the relationships, the misunderstandings, and the frustrations they struggled with are.
That's why we like the flawed hero stories and are drawn to the flawed hero.
They are human.
They are us.
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| Thornton can smile, or smirk, on occasion |
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| Thorin almost smiled here. Almost. Wonder how much money he lost on the bet? |
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| Thornton isn't quite sure what to make of newcomer Margaret Hale. |
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| About that brooding look... |
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| The tie is gone...the man has finally relaxed. |
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| Yeah, he's relaxed. Some women get all the luck... |
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| Ok, I just had to add this one because it's freaking adorable. I mean how many people can say they've been immortalized as a LEGO? |
He, what a great post! I never thought about this before, but you're right, the similarities are definitely there.
ReplyDeleteI love both Thorin and Thornton, but Thornton just a little bit more, because he opens up in the end.
I think if I had to choose between Thorin and Thornton I would also choose Thornton. He's not as gruff and like you said, he opens up and has a bit of a softening of the heart in the end. And he'd be taller than me. :)
DeleteThis is intriguing! I haven't read or seen N&S yet (please don't throw anything -- they're on my to-read and to-watch lists!), but Thorin... Thorin annoys me. He's too stubborn and snooty. And maybe I'm especially annoyed because I LOVE flawed heroes. Oh my, do I ever. Han Solo, Boromir, Wolverine, Sawyer, Angel -- give me that fixer-upper every time over the "good" good guy! Luke Skywalker and Aragorn and Cyclops and Jack Shepherd and Riley Finn have never interested me much at all. But that guy who keeps trying to overcome the obstacles both outside and inside himself? I can't get enough of that guy. Except for Thorin.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's that he's condescending. Nothing riles and disgusts me like condescension.
Yes, Thorin is very condescending. John Thornton can be at times, but don't write him off too soon when you read the book or see the movie. He redeems himself - I promise. I can't stand patronizing or condescending attitudes either, in real life or fiction.
DeleteOn another note, I saw the names Sawyer and Jack Shepherd in your list...you a Lostie?
Are you a Lostie? Sweet!
DeleteI'll give John Thornton a chance. I mean, I love Mr. Rochester and he's unbearably condescending in the beginning. To be fair, I like Thorin better in the movies than the book. So far.
I also like Thorin better in the movies than in the book. Richard Armitage brings a bit of humanity, for lack of a better word, to the character. I also love Mr. Rochester. He's such a tragic soul, but boy at the beginning I really wished he'd fall off a cliff or something.
DeleteAnd YES I am a Lostie! My family watched the entire series last summer. I mean, we were bordering on mental illness here - 4 or 5 episodes a night! I loved it so much I bought the whole series afterward.
Who were your favorite characters?
Lost is the sort of show you must inhale, not watch. My brother and his wife got me started on it, and I could never moderate my intake -- if I had a disc (got most of the series from the library), I would watch every ep as fast as I could during my kids' naptime (back when my son still napped). I would watch until they were awake, never mind if that meant stopping in the middle of an ep. And that is very, very odd behavior for me. I am usually a savorer -- I will make the eps of a TV show last as long as possible. I've never seen almost a third of the eps of my fave show ever (Combat!), and I let myself watch about 3 new ones a year because I don't want to run out for a long time. But with Lost, that was impossible. Had to inhale them. Mental illness is a good way to explain it.
DeleteMy favorite is Sawyer, and "favorite" doesn't really describe how much I love that character. There are only 4 other characters in everything I've ever watched that match the level of devotion I have for him. To risk sounding Gollumesque, he is precious to me.
Until the last couple of seasons, Kate was my second favorite. Then I got REALLY mad at her for messing stuff up between Sawyer and Juliet (all I want is for Sawyer to be happy, you see, and he was happy with Juliet, and then Kate showed up and it all got screwed up and... grr). So I still like Kate, but she's down farther on my list now.
I also love Desmond. And Hurley. And Charlie. And Juliet, and Sun, and Jinn, and Benjamin Linus. Well, I don't exactly love Ben, but he amuses me greatly, and I get a kick out of how he thinks he's the hero of the story.
But for me, it was always all about Sawyer. I spent a couple seasons convinced he was the guy in the coffin and dreading to find out if it was him or not. I love the flash-sideways world because him as a detective? I couldn't get enough of that. And the series finale -- I loved it. Because Sawyer had Juliet again and was happy, and that's all I ever wanted from the show. A happy Sawyer.
Er, um, okay, that got rather long, didn't it?
Hey, no worries! I always worry about making super long posts on other people's blogs too.
DeleteI agree about Sawyer. At first I though he was a real prat, but he grew on me very quickly. And he's really easy to look at too. I love how he really does become a part of the family they created and he ends up as much of a leader as Jack, if not more in many ways. I love all of his nicknames for other people - those were the best! And he and Juliet were just so freaking cute together!
And Hurley - I love him! I told my mom that if they killed off Hurley it was over. Done. But his last name being Reyes (king), I knew that had to mean something, so I was really hoping that he'd survive.
Ok, here's my big confession. Ben actually ended up my favorite character. I detested him at first. I so wanted him to die some horrible, tragic death. I wanted Jack to kill him like Juliet told him to! But then there was the episode that explained how he came to the Island and I was thinking "Oh no, don't you make me feel sorry for this little creep!" But yeah, I softened, just a tiny bit. Then as the story progressed I realized Ben just wanted one thing all his life - a real family. He wanted a wife and children and a home. He wanted to be someone special to someone else. I think that's why he as always trying to gain Jacob's favor and was so mad when Locke got marched right up to see him. No one had ever wanted him just because of him - they always wanted him around because of what they could get out of him. Now, that doesn't negate the fact he was a manipulative, conniving, liar, but I think Ben was one of the best examples of a person who is not beyond redemption.
So yeah, I'm a bit obsessed - the mental illness hasn't quite worn off yet! At least there's someone out there as mentally ill as me!
This is a funny little story. A few months before they showed me the first episodes, my brother and his wife were talking about introducing it to me. My brother said to his wife, "I don't know -- do you think she'd like Jack all that well?" His wife said, "No, not Jack. Sawyer." And was she ever right!
DeleteAt first, he IS a prat. Dude goes all Mr. Hoarder, shoots the marshal (ineffectively, silly boy), is generally a pain in everyone's behind. And yet... after the first two episodes, I was like, "He's mine." And yeeeeeeeeeeah, easy to look at is a good description. Easy to listen to too. Man, I love his accent. Especially since it's real. I watched all 14 eps of his new show Intelligence this season (which, alas, was cancelled), and it was so nice to have his voice in my brain again. I actually "cast" Josh Holloway as a main character in my last novel -- the whole story came to being from his character, though he's not the protagonist.
But anyway, Ben is my brother's favorite character. He's definitely one of the most complex, and just... needs a hug, doesn't he?
I finished watching the series a few years ago and I'm still mental about it! What did you think of the finale?
Ok, so I'm not the only one who LOVES Josh Holloway's accent! I could listen to that man read the phone book - I swear...
DeleteAnd Ben definitely needs a hug...a drink...a woman....something....I'd be happy to oblige ;)
The finale - personally, I loved it and so did my entire family. I know a lot of people hated it, but as Christians the ongoing themes of love, self-sacrifice, and redemption were wonderful. I loved that all along Hurley was supposed to be the Island's protector. Bumbling, sweet Hurley. And I swear to you, I cried when he asked Ben to help him. And the scene in the church at the end where it explained the flashes-sideways and everyone ends up with who they were meant to be with (i.e. Sawyer and Juliet were FINALLY back together!)...so touching. Going back and re-watching the series, I noticed something - their lives crossed over many, many times before the Island. The flash-sideways life was also the one they would have had if they had all made different, better choices in their lives. But no matter what, they were meant to be together.
So, guess what I'll be watching this weekend while I essentially have the whole house to myself!
Oh yes, love that accent! Cannot get enough of it. I have watched episodes of TV shows I have no other interest in just to see him guest star. Mmmmmmmmmm.
DeleteI loved the finale too. It brought closure and joy and just what I wanted. I'm so glad you liked it too! So, so many people I know didn't, and I'm like, "What, you thought in one hour they could answer every single question? No way.
And wow, would I ever love to have just a week or so with no one else around so I could reimmerse and watch the whole thing over again. Wow. Enjoy!